Videotape shows downtown graffiti artists

Please be patient, there was a problem with the link for the video. I am working on it and it should be up by 6 am or so.

All I get is "file requested cannot be found".

According to the latest press release, they have identified 2 of the 5 and possibly 3. They need jail time, not probation.

Sorry about the video. It seems to be too large and combersome. I am trying to convert to another codex

If the police want help identifying these people, they need to figure out a way for the public to view it. I was told it was on the city's site, but can't find it.

It is nice that the drug court people offered to help clean up the graffti. But I think the vandals who sprayed the paint should be ordereed by the judge to clean it up. Plus what ever punishment they are given by the judge.

Jail time will only make them more hardened criminals. They need to be sentenced to community service -- first cleaning up all the graffiti, then doing other things around town, mowing grass, pruning trees, etc. They need to experience the trouble they create for other people.

Get rid if the vandalism and leave the art. Just because some idiots with paint think its cool to mark every wall with their tag like a dog ******* on a tree doesn't mean the artistic stuff needs to be buffed as well.

IcedGreen Tea, you're right, community service would be good for these vandals. However it wouldn't hurt if they spent some time in jail.

Maybe community service in the daytime and nights and weekends in jail.

These kind of teenagers usually already have a record. Probation and community service won't make an impression on them. A few weekends in jail might help one or two of them. I have dealt with this kind before. They just don't care.

Guess you need a Mac to see the video.

Chris must have ment 6 am Tuesday.

The vandalism was recorded to a PC and the paper uses MAC. Not compatible.

First you got kids killing kids, now graffiti artists who are wannabe gang bangers. Look out Nevada things are getting worse just like the rest of the world. It just took time to catch up to us here!

Too bab they couldn't post the video. One of us might have recognized them.

Guess they gave up on the video. They should take the dead links out of the story.

maybe they can up load it onto youtube if the police have seen the video why havent we heard about any arrest

What is the point of updating the headline when the link still doesn't work?

I support the paper, I really do. However, it is unprofessional to not have this video posted by now. How many days has this article been online? Still no video? I guess they are concerned with no overtime more than doing their job.

Yep, I support the paper, but do your job.

Saw 4 cops holding four teenage boys tonight. Hmmm, Wonder if it's the taggers.

yeah, someone around here needs to know the difference between "graffiti art" and wannabe gang tags...

try doing a google image search for "graffiti" and then one for "gang tag" and look at the difference...apples and oranges folks...

Dear Mr. Howitzer,

Please remove your finger from the trigger. Aside from your obvious proclivities toward equivocation, I suspect you are also largely ignorant of the deeper sociological issues involved in what many people around here seem intent on unscrupulously calling "graffiti art." First of all, this is not graffiti art and should not be referred to as such. If you would have bothered to do the two google searches I suggested in my previous post, you may have an inkling of what I'm aiming at.

The recent rash of vandalism around Nevada is properly called "gang tagging," and is similar to graffiti art only by the fact that both groups use spray paint and often paint on buildings without authorization. There the similarities end. Confusing the two is simply irresponsible. The intentions are vastly different, as are the groups of individuals involved, and the driving cultural dynamics attached to those individuals.

Do not misunderstand me. I am not condoning the unauthorized painting of anyone's property. In fact my family has been on the receiving end of this vandalism twice in as many months. The simple fact is, anyone wanting to seriously address the issue in an intelligent manner should do so from the standpoint of informed opinion and not unsophisticated hasty generalizations about two different groups of people that don't even own each other, let alone share responsibilities for the subject of this article.

Furthermore, I, and a number of my friends, actually do occasionally make money selling our graffiti as art, legally, I might add, as well as involve ourselves in fundraising for non-profit organizations for underprivileged youth, and art programs for people with developmental disabilities. So I take personal offense at unfair displays of ignorance where there appears to be little or no effort to understand the basics of this conversation.

In conclusion, if we are interested in tackling this issue in a manner at all constructively, we have to start asking ourselves what kinds of socially relevant topics we must face as a responsible community, not simply to ruminate on what punishments we would like to dole out to the perpetrators of public vandalism, but to begin addressing the origin of the desires of our Nevada youth to be involved in gangs. This project will not be furthered in the least by embarking on some grand and righteous sounding, yet ultimately, quixotic campaign against these so-called "graffiti artists."

So, I guess they are not going to post the video...

Fail to read anything? What on earth are you talking about?

The simple point is, both you and the person who wrote this article are mistaken in your of use of the term "Graffit Artist." This is not my opinion. And I am not "hidding behind a title." The stuff going on in Nevada is simply not graffiti art. I haven't even seen any graffiti art around here, except on the trains that come through, and that likely did not originate here. If you had any inkling at all of the things I have referenced above, you would not accuse me of "bandying about my own opinion." I apologize if I spoke over your head, but I do have three collage degrees I've worked hard to earn over the last 11 years, studying cultural dynamics, no less. If you would like a full explanation of why your opinion is less than sophisticated, I would be happy to oblige, and I could even throw in references to a number sociological studies that would provide ample evidence that this is not just my opinion. However, I doubt very seriously there is enough space on this sort of forum. The fact remains, you are wrong in your insistence that the stuff going on here be lumped under the term "Graffiti Art," for all the reasons I have hinted at above.

People, like you, who are of the opinion that stricter penalties for such vandalism will help the problem, are, to put it politely, ignorant. The tougher you get with these kids, the more the problem will flourish. The reason? They are not graffiti artists. They are kids wanting to be involved in gangs. In other cities around the US, the most effective means of curbing this kind of crime has not proven to be stricter penalties. It has been quality youth programs--something that does not exist here. The cause, most often, is related to economic stress and abuse in their families. Address that, and the other problem will go away. Throw them in jail or give them community service and you will succeed only in validating their behavior. And the problem will get worse.

One last time, the vandalism that has been going on in Nevada is gang related, not graffiti art. Maybe you, Mr. Howitzer should be the one doing some reading.

"If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." Abraham Maslow

Sunflower what makes you so positive this is gang related?

I apologize for the length of this but I didn't see any way around it if I was to be thorough.

I commend you on your extensive research Mr. Howitzer, that day and a half must have been harrowing. This will likely be my last post on here (unless someone actually has some constructive discussion to carry out), so feel free to continue propagating whatever obtuse opinions you like after I've gone. (I'll also answer Shiloh in the process).

I have reduced your opinion to the following syllogism:

1. All acts of vandalism involving spray paint is "Graffiti Art."

2. "Graffiti Art" is a title that miscreants and other undesirables give to their vandalism, as a way to excuse their actions in defacing someone else's property.

3. Vandalism is never Art.

4. Vandals should be punished.

5. Therefore: Everyone who does "Graffiti Art" should be punished. If this means tightening up the law here in Nevada, so be it.

I think I have faithfully represented the core of your opinion (I could actually go back and pull quotes from your posts to back up each of these points). So here is my response point by point:

1. Not all vandalism involving spray paint is properly called "Graffiti Art." If you would continue your research, you would find that there are a number of officially recognized types of graffiti, and only a few of them fall under the title of "Graffiti Art." The general rule is, if there was no attempt at being artistic (as in the picture featured with this article of the ODC 99 tag), then it is not properly called "Graffiti Art." The type pictured above can be called under the catch-all term of "Graffiti" or "Tag" or "Gang Graffiti" etc, depending on what you think about the actual type. It is however NOT "Graffiti Art." This has been the one central point I've been making over and over and, honestly, I it blows my mind that you can't seem to fathom that.

2. The term "Graffiti Art" is properly extended to any piece which makes an attempt at art in the style now referred to as "Graffiti" This is a use of the term "Graffiti" in a way that denotes a style of art, which usually entails spray paint, but is not exclusively so, as well as stencils, but not exclusively so. (There are a rising number of popular graffiti artist who use sidewalk chalk, for instance.) As such, the style of art referred to as "Graffiti Art" has been now well established and celebrated as high art. (One of SAMO's pieces sold a few years ago in New York for $14.6 million.) Artists like SAMO (Jean-Michel Basquiat), one of my favorite artists, would not exist if not for their years of illegal graffiti. The reason they painted on property illegally was because they didn't own any property themselves and their style of art required canvases the size of buildings. The reason they did it without permission was because the property owners had no imagination, and would rather their walls remain large gray expanses of depressive monotony. For this reason I am willing to defend graffiti artists.

3. Before you imply again that I would change my tone if I were the brunt of such property defacement, I actually have a few examples of this from the last few years. In Springfield, a year or so ago, a group of people and I had a warehouse that got tagged by a graffiti artist, instead of painting over it, we encouraged other graffiti artists to also tag the building and we even did some work on it ourselves. On the other hand, here in Nevada, one of my family's properties got tagged and all the windows broken out. We imediately called the police, documented the tag, and painted over it. The difference? One was an attempt at art and the other was not. They should not be treated the same.

4. A community supported graffiti wall will help with a graffiti art problem, because it gives the artist a space to work on, and most of the time, that's all they are looking for. On the other hand, the type of graffiti pictured above is not an attempt at art. It is, therefore not to be confused with graffiti art. In this specific case it bares all the classic markings of being a gang tag. Gang tags are functional first and foremost. They mark territory. Often this is drug trafficking territory. There is no interest in art. This is why I am taking the time to even post on this forum. No one in Nevada, right now, seems to be taking this seriously. So far, all I've gotten are rolled eyes and smirks when I mention gangs. If this problem is not addressed in an appropriate manner now, the graffiti pictured above will be the least of our worries. I wish Nevada had a graffiti art problem. But, alas, it does not.

5. The question of what is an appropriate response is at the heart of my concern here. If we ignore this is a gang related problem, and continue to insist that it is just a problem of "graffiti art" vandalism by destructive youth, we may find ourselves in the grip of a crime wave we are not prepared to handle or understand, and it will not be confined to marring our precious brick walls, or white siding, or whatever else we cover our buildings with. If the vandalism we have been experiencing here in Nevada is indeed not "graffiti art," but is instead "gang graffiti" our response must be calculated accordingly. Other cities around the US that have dealt with this sort of thing have tended to take the stance represented by many people on this forum, that tightening up the laws, making penalties for vandalism harsher, even restricting the sales or ownership of spray paint. These kinds of measures have all failed to decrease the amount vandalism where gang graffiti is concerned. In fact, most of the time, the more attention the community pays to the problem the visible it becomes, and encourages rather than discourages the vandalism in question. So far in ur countries history of this type of problem, the most effective means of decreasing vandalism is the institution and support, by the entire community, of youth programs. A quality youth program can undermine our youth's involvement in gangs, while giving them something else to do with their time, and thus reduce the amunt of gang related vandalism. This is the only longterm option. In the short term, these tags need to be documented (police agencies in the US maintain a graffiti database to track gang movements) and then removed or painted over as soon as possible.

I have already seen evidence of the development of possible turf wars. For example, I drive down Cedar street every day to go to work. About 3 months ago, I saw a string of the OYG tags go up in a number of conspicuous places (abandon buildings, empty houses, telephone poles, etc.). Within a few days, those tags had been marked over and variations the ODC 99 tag put up in their place. This is a classic example of the first signs of gang activity and a turf war. In this case, I don't think much will come of the war part for the simple reason that I haven't noticed any OYG tags since then. They evidently got the message. (I would even be willing to speculate that there was an altercation involving these two groups around that time.) This same thing has been playing out all over Nevada. This is the common practice for gangs marking their turf.

On a side note, judging from the look of the tags and the position on buildings the OYG tags were done by 3 or 4 individuals, at least one of which is in excess of 6ft tall (I had to stretch to cover up the tag I painted over and I'm 6ft. 2in. The OYG tags themselves are too underdeveloped to be a serious gang. They are likely local kids between the ages 14 - 24. (And I don't know if there is a connection or not, but OYG is a known acronym which means Original Young Gangster and has been associated with members from a number of high profile gangs like the Bloods, this makes me think this is just a group of wanna be Navadan gang bangers.) The ODC crew is different. Their mark, like the one pictured above is much more developed and has the characteristics of having evolved in the context of real gangs. They are likely not originally from Nevada. They appear to me to be a real threat beyond vandalism. Their age group would be more in 19 - 35 range.

You may think this sounds ridiculous here in Nevada, but I assure you, there are many reasons why Nevada is now a prime target for such a development. Over the last few years, our police officers have done a rather thorough job of breaking up home grown drug trafficing rings, in Nevada and the surrounding area. (In case any of you have had your head in the sand, our area code, 417, is known around the rest of the US as another name for meth.) The absence of these established local rings has opened up the door for outsiders looking to establish themselves here before the work on 71 is complete. Where drug trafficking is concerned, Nevada, positioned nicely on a soon to be superhighway, between KC, Springfield, Joplin is a great place for drug traffickers to lay low and have immediate access to every prominent market in the area. These aren't the only reasons, of course. There are also economic factors. But, in a town where it evidently isn't even obvious that the above pictured tag is gang related, well, I see little hope of convincing any of you this is something to take seriously outside of the rather petty concerns over spray paint on your walls.

Do us all a favor and do some real research.

Sunflower, I dont have all day to read that and

I still dont see it as gang related, sorry. I looked up the facebook pages of the two guys who were arrested. Chris' page says:

Hello my name is Chris. I thought I should formally introduce myself.I like anime. I am 19 years of age.

I am Chris a.k.a conker. I love music. Conker is the best. I may be different but thats because im just me. I like video games and music as well.Anything else you want to know just ask =3

And his status from June 22

"Bout to go to jail for a while. My bond is 25,000. LAWL."

He goes on to say

"ý9 counts of destruction of property and 1 count of tampering with a moter vehicle which the last one i didnt do. I dont **** with peoples cars"

"**** spraypainting. Can you believe it?"

"They do have us on video. We were so drunk we forgot there were cameras. and it was the alley and community center."

sounds like stupid drunk kids, not gangsters.